Let Go and Be Free Podcast: Episode 47 (Exploring Step 8 of the Twelve Steps of Adult Children of Alcoholics)

In today's episode, I discuss the eighth step from Adult Children of Alcoholics & Dysfunctional Families World Service Organization's 12 Steps.

Step 8: Made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all.

Step 8 can be a ticky one. As we start to work on this step, ask yourself this question: "Why am I looking to make amends to this person?"

Is it for your own egocentric means (e.g., you're looking to get back together with an ex) and are you respecting the person? Maybe they don't wish to be contacted.

The purpose of this step is to grow and learn how to use the framework of the 12 Steps to be happier in all of your relationships.

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Want to learn more about Let Go and Be Free? Check out the Let Go and Be Free book series.

I’m not a medical expert. If you need help, please reach out to a medical professional.

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Transcript

Welcome to the Let Go and Be Free podcast, a podcast for those who grew up in an alcoholic or dysfunctional family. I'm your host, Ron Vitale, author of the Let Go and Be Free: 100 Daily Reflections for Adult Children of Alcoholics series. If you'd like to learn more, feel free to visit, letgoandbefree.com. And with that, let's get on with the show.

Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of Let go and be free. This week, we are going to focus on Step eight of adult children of alcoholics, their 12 steps, if you have not heard the previous episodes, please go back and take a look. Listen to the other episodes of the steps one through seven. Step eight. If you're not familiar with this step, I'm gonna read it twice for you. So we can kind of just process it, process the words, focus on it, see what this is. So step eight, made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all.

Again, I'll read it another time. Step eight, made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all. Now, I remember the first time that I came across this point, it was decades ago, the 12 steps of ACOA told Children of Alcoholics World Service Organization, I read this step and I was like, wait a minute, what about all the people who did things to me? You know, when I was a kid, what why am I you know, making a list and you know, checking it twice, and I'm gonna, you know, do all these things and be willing to make amends, I don't understand why am I doing this? Now, having been familiar with the 12 steps of AA, Alcoholics Anonymous, I understood, you know, from people that I've known that were in that organization, they had mentioned this step to me.

So it kind of made sense to me of like, Oh, if you're struggling with an addiction, you know, there are times where you may act out against people, and, you know, you're, you're drunk, and you don't know what you're doing. And, you know, you're, you're gonna make a list of all the things you've done, and you're gonna make amends for that. But logically, I can understand that that made sense. When it came to adult children of alcoholics, and you know, me having grown up in a dysfunctional family, I was like, wait a minute, I just don't understand.

And as I went through and started attending the meetings, I understood that a lot of the behaviors I had learned, you know, from my parents, in times of stress, or emotional crisis, there's a pattern that others who had grown up in similar environments would do the same. So we've talked about this in the past, you know, maybe you would lash out at people, maybe you withdraw, become emotionally unavailable. Maybe you're manipulative, because that was your way of being able to get through when you were a kid.

And you were kind of pulling the strings, you know, behind the scenes. So that way you can get what you want to get by, you know, maybe allied who knows a whole list of things. But the important thing to know is that for this step, it's basically saying, okay, you know, what, you got to cut the crap, you got to come to terms with all the personality quirks that you have, and things that you have done to harm others in other relationships, that can be those within your family could be, you know, toward your parents could be toward a sibling, an uncle and aunt, cousin, whatever could be your co workers could be your spouse, or could be a boyfriend or girlfriend, whatever.

This is a difficult step. For multiple reasons. One, when I was younger, the step eight and Step nine, and we'll talk about step nine in a future episode. But I, I fell into one of the common traps for people going through the 12 steps, you get to this and you're like, Oh, well, I have to go back in all my history, and start making a list of all the people that I have harmed. Oh, conveniently that happens to be, you know, some of the people I've been in romantic relationships with, wouldn't it be great to get in touch with them and see how how things are going and oh, maybe they still might like me, your brain works in very wild ways. The first time you go through the steps, and I know that it's just, it's not just me that had those thoughts, you know, going through the first time I went through through Step eight, and hearing others, one of the, I guess, watch outs is, are you contacting someone, you know?

And again, that's going to be step nine? Are you putting a person on the list and then going to make amends to the person because you really want to make amends? Or is it more of a manipulative thing, where you kind of want to check in on them and see how they're doing in their life, you want to see if they're, there's a possibility of a spark that maybe you can get back together with them, because maybe the time is right now, your brain, again, does some pretty interesting giant gymnastics to kind of, you know, get you in a certain frame of mind, where behavior patterns that were dysfunctional did not serve you well, might still be so ingrained in you that you still fall into those traps.

And let me explain that for a little bit. Often, people who are in ACA or ACOA, depending on which acronym you like to use, adult children of alcoholics, typically, those of us that are in the organization or follow the steps, do so because we are aware that there are unhealthy behavior patterns that we have latched on to, they helped us get through difficult time in our lives. But there's also some behaviors that are not necessarily healthy at all, you know, maybe diction to adrenaline, like adrenaline of that rush of infatuation of falling for someone, even though you know, that person's not ready for you the bad person, then you get kind of trapped into, well, there's something you know, sexy or attractive, or something about their personality. And the way your brain might be wired is, subconsciously, some of the characteristics that what you grew up with, one of your parents or so in those early relationships, might have had characteristics like that, and your brain thinks, oh, well, that's like a healthy relationship, a healthy marriage is like, someone who is needs to be saved. So I'm going to step in like a knight on a white horse, and I'm gonna save that person.

Or maybe that person needs to save me. And we're only complete. We're two broken pieces. But when we come together, we complete each other, like some of those fallacies, some of those romantic fallacies that you've often heard, in various, you know, movies over the decades, it can be very tricky, that when you get to step eight, and you start listing all the persons that you have harmed, if you go back and start thinking about some of those people that you've been in romantic relationships with, you know, the question is, why are you listening that person, you know, what do you need to make amends for. And, again, we'll get more into this in the episode where we talked about Step nine, but sometimes making amends means respecting their space, and not getting back involved in their lives and trying to drag them through your recovery process of healing from the trauma of growing up in a, you know, either addiction in your family or dysfunction. And that that's a really difficult, you know, line to be able to see, and to look in the mirror and be like, let me be honest, what, how do I really feel about this? You know, that's very challenging.

It's not something that is easy in any way to be able to go through because, you know, there is something to be said about the excitement of like that infatuation of meeting someone and falling in love and you're head over heels, nothing else in the world exists and you escape for a while from the challenges of the everyday world bills and problems and etc. That also means, you know, your brain might be wrapped into that adrenaline oxytocin of like, wow, you know, somebody sees me the way I really am and everything else in your life might just fall by the wayside. You know, may not be spending time and energy on building the relationships that you currently have with your family, your friends, your co workers. And it also might mean that you're taking critical time and energy away on working on yourself. Because if you're focusing so much on Well, step eight says that, you know, I need to make this list Oh, well, you know what, I gotta make this amend Oh, Step nine, that's easy. Let me just contact them on Facebook or send them a letter, call them out of the blue or whatever. And that could get you into all sorts of trouble. It's one of those things that I recommend that you work on Step eight, you do your list. And you started thinking, why you put that person on the list?

Like, what what did you do? Did you lie? Did you cheat to chip, whatever? yell at them arguments, did you treat them badly, call them names of whatever you did that nobody else needs to know that but you, you put all those you know, down in your list. And I would say, Stop for a moment. And when I say a moment, like, for some considerable amount of time, several days, let that list sit, and then start thinking about the other steps, meaning, go back through 123456 and seven, and kind of do like a touch base and see how are you feeling about those steps. And then when you come back to Step eight, and you look at that list, you might be at a different position, a different point of view. And you could be more honest and say, Oh, yes, I have done these things to these exes, let's say, but, you know, in Step nine, making amends, yeah, I have an ongoing relationship with this person, it would make sense for me to make amends. But if there was a bad breakup, and if the breakup was initiated by the other person, the best thing might be to distance yourself. And the best way to make amends to that person is to honor the fact that they do not wish to have you in their life anymore. And that can be really difficult. Because again, Step eight, and step nine can be really tricky, because you're like, but it says that I have to make a list and I got to make amends. So I'm going to reach out to the person, and maybe the person doesn't want you to reach out. Some people you're going to know that because maybe it was just a bad breakup.

And it's too soon to reach out. Or they specifically said, I never want to see you again. And you know, I'm just using that as an extreme example. But if that is the case, then I would say, honor, what that person has asked for, and if they ever wish to reach back out to you, then you could be receptive. And that could be making the amends to that particular person, it's more of a Oh, instead of me going through this checklist of like I've, I've, you know, need to make amends to all these people, oh, well, this person is on the list, I'm going through my list, I have to do it. The flip.

And the more in my opinion, mature way of handling this list is there are some people that don't want you to reach out to them. Honor that, give them that space that they asked for. And no need to complicate matters and kind of dredge up, you know, baggage and hurt and pain because the person may not be wanting to hear from you. They may not even be on the same journey as you and, you know, this could go either way, you know, if you had a bad breakup with someone, maybe they're still unable to see the personality quirks that they have, and whatever they're dealing with, and they've ignored that.

And then the question is, why do you want to get pulled back into that just because of the rush of infatuation? And, you know, you feel like you might get some attention from them? Is it worth it in the long run? These are some of the questions that again, when you reflect back in some of the earlier episodes, when I had shared some of the skills that I learned in my early counseling sessions, you know, asking yourself the question is, is this healthy for me? Is this true? You know, is it true that me reaching out to this particular ex is gonna, you know, be something that's going to be fulfilling and healthy for them? And for me? Is it healthy for me? You know, the answer might be no, I'm going to, you know, be potentially sucked back in to dysfunction or addiction or whatever else that person is going through. That's a real cause of concern. And I've seen many people fall into that, that, you know, they have the mindset of, well, I'm doing the steps, but the secret wish of their heart is I want to get back together with that person again. I'm Want to give it another go? This time, I'm going to do it right. And I'm not saying that, that is 100% impossible, but the odds are not in your favor.

And I would say, definitely take the time to think of this step in a way, that is really true to your your core, you know, it's very easy to lie to oneself and be like, Oh, well, I'm only going to do this one time, or I'm only going to reach out to this person. Because, you know, the last time we were together, you know, I said some nasty things. And I want to apologize, I mean, we can rationalize until, you know, the cows come home. And I think anyone who's been in multiple relationships, and if you, you know, are familiar with the, you know, some of the challenges, those of us who grew up in a dysfunctional family, you know, struggle with, you know, where I'm coming from, you know, this. And then if you're, if you're new to this, this, to me is a big warning sign, that you definitely want to circle this step.

And you want to reflect on it in a way that you give yourself some distance, and some space to process what you're really thinking, because the initial rush of, I'm going to do this good thing, maybe it's good for you, and it's not going to be good for the other person. And I, my personal opinion, is having seen a bunch of people get wrapped up, you know, in their past and sucked back into their past problems. Because they had the, you know, they rationalized this step and said, Oh, well, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to do the right thing. And this time, everything's going to be better. They were fooling themselves, you know, and I've seen that happen.

And in my own experience, when I went through the steps for the first time, I remember, but like, well, I'm going to reach out to this person. And then I'm going to apologize, and I'm going to show them, like you know that I've changed it, you know, again, it's all ego based there, it's basically just trying to right or wrong in the past, for a personal motive, with the hope and wish that maybe you would get back together again, part of what is I found to be amazing of the steps is that, you know, as we mature, as we go on this journey, as we get experience, we learn, that may be the type of person that we thought was our, you know, best partner, soulmate, whatever you want to call that person is not the same as what that would be now, or let's say, a year from now, we're changing, we're growing. And hopefully, as you're going through the steps, if you're doing journaling, if you're going to therapy, you are dealing with and processing and healing from past trauma. And that has allowed you to open doors and maybe see one, you don't need desperately to be some with someone to be happy.

You know, that's a I've seen that as well, like, so many people are like, well, I can't go to the movies on my own, or I can't go out to dinner on my own, you know, I must find someone you can break up with somebody, they break up with them. Because the relationship becomes what challenge broken, whatever you want to call it. And then they just fall right back into another relationship time after time after time after time, and nothing is changing.

And so the question is, are you willing to step back and see your own faults in that particular example, that I'm giving, it's, maybe you're too needy, you're thinking that you have to be with someone, whereas you've not seen your own strength, you've not had the time, the quiet, to be able to really think and say like, Hey, wait a minute, why am I always attracted to a certain type of person? And that's another reason that I find this step eight to be really good when you're making that list. You know, if you're doing this and you have decades of experience, or, you know, let's say not even decades, if you've got years of experience, you might see like, oh, wait a minute, I dated a few people, and they have these certain similar traits. Why is that?

Why am I picking that same kind of person? What do I find, you know, attractive in that type of person? Is that something that is going to help me where I am now on my journey? Is that person still going to be attractive to me now that I've, you know, grown, start to process some of my past trauma? Is a person healthy for me? That's, again, some of these questions are not easy to answer.

And again, what I like about it The steps is that you can do this in secrecy and privacy, you don't need to talk to anybody about this. You can keep this close to your chest, you could keep it in your journal, you could write about it, you can think about it, you could process it, and you have time to go through this. Sure. First time you're going through the steps, you might want to barrel through one through 12 done cheating, I get the gold medal onward and upward. It's not how life is, you know that. I know that everybody knows that.

As you get older, you think, you know, things might be a nice sequential process. But what happens when you have a difficult difficult time in your life, where you fall back into dysfunctional behaviors, where you fall back into the comfort of behavior patterns that help you as a coping mechanism, but no longer helpful or healthy now? How are you going to handle those things? What are the skills? What are the tools that you have to be able to go forward? As Ed said before, in a previous episode, I see the 12 steps is that guide, it's a guide, it's a framework that helps you process your thoughts and say, well, checkpoint, wait a minute timeout, I typically get into a certain type of behavior. Let's say you withdraw, when you get into an argument, you kind of pull back, go through the steps again, and kind of understand why are you acting that way? Is it how you really want to be?

How can you be courageous and accept here is all who I am false and all and then move forward in a way that's going to be a healthy way to settle a conflict, instead of either withdrawing and denial or offense, the opposite, lashing out yelling, screaming, fighting, but never getting to a resolution. So in these, you know, in the steps, I think it's important to use them as checkpoints throughout. Again, I do this on a daily basis, but for maybe you maybe you want to do it on a weekly basis. We're up the stair step eight, have you even read the previous steps? You know, again, since we went through them? Why why not? Sometimes what I have found, taking a pen and paper, and writing with my hand, forces me to really take time to process and think like if you were to write the steps out, or if you see the steps on a website, and then you open up a word processor, and you type out that step.

And then think of what it means to you and then write something about it in a daily journal, what would you gain? What would you learn? You're at Step eight. Now, if you're listening to this podcast, maybe you've just come in and you've only listened to step eight, well, you could step back and go back 7654321 or go back to one. What I'm trying to share here is that there's value in this framework that you can go back, daily basis, weekly basis, whatever works for you. But I find that daily or couple times a week to be really helpful that it helps me to kind of do that checkpoint in my brain of like, Okay, where am I right now? How do I feel? What am I going through? Why am I struggling with XY or Z?

And then I have that tool of the steps to be able to go, let me think about this from a different perspective. How can I handle this in a more mature way, instead of whatever lashing out or deny withdrawing or whatever the other coping mechanisms that maybe you struggled with, you know, or what you learned. So, you know, for me, when it comes to habits when it comes to our behaviors, these neural pathways, the way our brains the way we think, you know, I, I had a therapist that said, they're like grooves on a record. And or the cassette keeps playing again and again, and again, like the grooves on your record, like the skip, like, you just keep getting into that groove. And you keep going around and around and around. Because that's what we learned. Well, how do you unlearn that? How do you break that habit? How do you say, that is no longer healthy for me acting that way? I need to act a different way.

What is that different way? Why. And that's the power of having like, being human and having consciousness and being able to think and question and learn. We have the opportunity to do things differently. If we set ourselves up for success. I think that's the tricky thing is that you get to a step like Step eight, and you're like, Well, I'm going to list all those people I've harmed and I'm going to make amends to them up. Pull up the old book in COP The old boyfriends or whatever, you know, again, I'm exaggerating, but I think you could, you can see where I'm coming from, you know, on this, there is the potential for this step to allow you to heal old wounds and grievances.

That may be you may have not have talked someone for decades or years. And maybe the time is right. But then there's also the opportunity to think and go, Hmm, maybe I'm just being selfish. And it's not right, right now, for me to contact that person. I'm just trying to, you know, get back into the ego loop of, you know, infatuation and see if that person still finds me attractive, or they still like me, what are your real, you know, motivations in in this step. And it could be different for each different person, you know, on the step, and how you go through and process this. And actually make amends could be different for each person. And that's part of what the next step is. But if you've gotten to step eight, I would say, take some time, work on the step, back away, whatever list you've created, put it off to the side for a while. Go look at the other steps, read the steps again, listen to some of the other episodes of the podcast, and relive them.

Again, I mentioned this before, it's a beauty of it, they're still there, just go back, you can listen to them, they're free. And then you might have learned something different. Because now you have the knowledge of what step eight is, and getting back into some of those other steps of like, well, why was I thinking about these defects of character? You know? And step six? What about that? What are those defects of character? How is that interrelated to step eight, because maybe a defective character is you don't want to be alone. And you find it difficult to be on your own. And so you lash out, not lashed strong word, you latch on to people, and you're needy, and you need them to be in your life, because you're afraid that you were abandoned when you were young.

And people weren't either there for you physically or emotionally. That's a hard thing to be able to think through. So if that is true, or something similar to that nature, go back, look at those previous steps, see what you've learned, and then apply them to the future steps. It's the framework that matters, the whole set of skills that you're learning here, again, the steps don't work from you take what you want from them, don't use the rest. But there are other useful aspects of what we're discussing. Here. Even if you don't frame things up as steps. It does make sense to do self reflection. What are your defects of character? You know, how can you make amends to people? What does that really mean? Do you just say, I'm sorry? Do you make amends by just not even saying anything, but your behavior has changed toward a person and they notice it and be like, Oh, thank you so much for listening to me, you know, or whatever the situation is, making an amends doesn't necessarily mean that you have to use words, it might mean, how you're treating someone, if especially if it's a difficult, you know, situation, a thought comes to mind of like, if there was a couple, and the couple's now divorced, and they have children.

And let's say the one person just really is mean, you know, says mean things about the other in front of their children. Well, maybe that might change. And that person will go, You know what, that's not really nice for me to do, she gives that person the benefit of the doubt. I'm angry, I'm hurt because of the divorce. And I'm taking my my anger out by pulling in, let's say, a child, that's not going to be good for the child. So what can I do, and that's something to talk about in therapy. That's something to write about in your journal. So again, I'm just using these examples as something that could be really helpful for you to be able to look at the step from a different perspective, and then go back through the other steps.

Give yourself some time before you move on the step nine. So again, I hope you find this episode helpful. If you'd like to learn more you can visit let go and be free.com. And then again, just to remind everyone, we are coming up to a couple of weeks we'll be at my one year anniversary of this podcast. I am looking for just be honest financial support to pay be able to pay the podcasting fees the web Say hosting fees. So if you are so inclined, please purchase one of my books on any of the major online retailers, Amazon and Kobo and Barnes and Noble. Like go and be free. Ron Vitale, you can look them up, or just make a donation by becoming a subscribing member to the substack, the weekly email list that goes out that announces, it's a short little newsletter that announces each episode that comes out on Saturdays, you know, for the cost of like five hours a month that's like what, one or two Starbucks coffees that could help me keep this podcast going to be able to pay those hosting fees. So again, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate that you're listening, and you're willing to be open to learning new ways. Thank you again, and be well.

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