Published on the now defunct Grimmoire.com, August 21, 2002
A Guide to Trading Online
by Ron Vitale
You've amassed your several shoeboxes worth of cards and have all your best ones in a binder, but can't find those last three cards you need to complete a deck. What to do?
Well, first, I would suggest that you go to your local comic shops and utilize these great resources. You might discover that the local shop supports Friday Night Magic or runs its own informal tournaments on Saturday and Sunday. For the last nine years, I've supported the local comic shops by buying product there (dice, card sleeves, etc.), participating in drafts, and in spreading the good word about the local shop to my friends. Remember, that support of your local comic shop that allows Players to hang out and play the game is a great resource. If you take it for granted and do not spend any money there, then the shop might close its doors. Before I leave the local shop option, a word to the wise: Watch your stuff! Let me break this down for you newbies out there. The world is field with good people and, unfortunately, those who choose to walk in shadow. I have heard of whole decks stolen and binders vanish without a trace. Never leave your binder unattended. Unless you trust someone explicitly, do not say to a stranger, "Can you keep an eye out for my stuff?" She might agree to do so, but if she gets pulled into another trade, her first priority isn't going to be guarding your cards. Be smart. Carry your backpack or binder with you at all times.
Meet the World
Players often first start trading with friends and then move on to their local comic shop. But when those options are leaving you out to dry, then another option is to trade online. The best thing about trading online is that you can meet people from different parts of the world. I have traded with people in Japan, France, Germany, Malaysia, Russia (just did that today), and here in America. Again, I would like to stand on my soapbox and say: If you won't trade with someone outside the USA, then do us all a favor, and don't come online. The World Wide Web is all encompassing. Magic is not just a game we play here in the USA. There are Magic Players all around the world. If you're going to trade online, please be open minded and consider offers from the rest of the world. You'll find that just as here in the USA, people will be good and others will walk in the shadow. Just because someone is from outside the USA, doesn't mean that they are a bad trader.
A Guide to Trading Online
by Ron Vitale
You've amassed your several shoeboxes worth of cards and have all your best ones in a binder, but can't find those last three cards you need to complete a deck. What to do?
Well, first, I would suggest that you go to your local comic shops and utilize these great resources. You might discover that the local shop supports Friday Night Magic or runs its own informal tournaments on Saturday and Sunday. For the last nine years, I've supported the local comic shops by buying product there (dice, card sleeves, etc.), participating in drafts, and in spreading the good word about the local shop to my friends. Remember, that support of your local comic shop that allows Players to hang out and play the game is a great resource. If you take it for granted and do not spend any money there, then the shop might close its doors. Before I leave the local shop option, a word to the wise: Watch your stuff! Let me break this down for you newbies out there. The world is field with good people and, unfortunately, those who choose to walk in shadow. I have heard of whole decks stolen and binders vanish without a trace. Never leave your binder unattended. Unless you trust someone explicitly, do not say to a stranger, "Can you keep an eye out for my stuff?" She might agree to do so, but if she gets pulled into another trade, her first priority isn't going to be guarding your cards. Be smart. Carry your backpack or binder with you at all times.
Meet the World
Players often first start trading with friends and then move on to their local comic shop. But when those options are leaving you out to dry, then another option is to trade online. The best thing about trading online is that you can meet people from different parts of the world. I have traded with people in Japan, France, Germany, Malaysia, Russia (just did that today), and here in America. Again, I would like to stand on my soapbox and say: If you won't trade with someone outside the USA, then do us all a favor, and don't come online. The World Wide Web is all encompassing. Magic is not just a game we play here in the USA. There are Magic Players all around the world. If you're going to trade online, please be open minded and consider offers from the rest of the world. You'll find that just as here in the USA, people will be good and others will walk in the shadow. Just because someone is from outside the USA, doesn't mean that they are a bad trader.
Do not force your rules onto someone who has a ton of good references simply because they live in another country than you do. I've seen people post messages online that state that non-American traders have to send first no matter what. Personally, I think this type of behavior is childish and wrong. Let me explain why. I've been trading online for years. Before the Magic Online Traders League (I'll explain what this is later), I used to trade on the newsgroups. I traded all around the world without a problem. It so happens that I did have someone try to rip me off in my own state here in America. The nerve of that person flipped me out. I had traded with people thousands and thousands of miles away without having any problems, but it took a fellow American to rip me off. Thankfully, I was able to track the person down, spoke to his parent, got him in trouble, and his father made him call me, apologize, and send me back my cards. Ah, justice can be sweet!
What's the moral here? No matter if you trade with someone in the USA or in another country, people will still try to rip you off. Just don't be prejudiced and refuse to trade with someone outside the USA because of this. Thoroughly checking someone's references and being patient (remember it takes longer to get cards from Asia than it does from someone two states away!), is the key to success. Here's a rule of thumb: Treat others as you wish to be treated. It's the old Golden Rule that many of us were taught in growing up. Most often, if you are fair in a trade with someone outside the USA, that person will be fair back. It might take a while longer to get the cards, but you might also find an e-mail pen pal or someone to play Magic with online. At the least, trading around the world allows you to see all the cool stamps from different countries. Be open-minded and fair.
Okay, let's start from scratch. You have a bunch of cards that you want to trade but you're looking for five really good cards. Before you do anything, prepare your list in a MS Word file. Divide the lists into two sections: "Haves" and "Wants." By saving the file, you'll be able to update the list easily, without having to type everything in from scratch. Once you have this information typed up, you'll need to create a set of rules.
I typically use:
Here's some good etiquette in following through with a trade. If you post out your haves and wants, review the offers given to you. Once you select a trade you like (remember, you can decline them all if you want, just send each user an e-mail to let them know that you're not accepting their offer), contact the individual, and work out the following:
When you first go online and start to trade, you'll quickly become aware of many gods on the trading forums. You'll notice posts that say "god rules apply" or, even more subtle (sarcasm intended), phrases such as "I am god." What does this all mean? I'll break it down into simplistic, psychological terms. The trader who says "I am god" has an inferiority complex and mistakenly believes that he (I've never seen a woman do this) has the right to dictate all the conditions of the trade. Simply because they have a huge number of references, they believe that they can command the entire nature of the trade. Want some words of advice? Don't trade with them. You'll be happier in the long run. Anyone who needs to be so caustic over pieces of cardboard, needs to get a grip. There are two major types of traders: The ones who believe they own everything and can boss people around and those who want to make a trade fairly. The "gods" believe that they are special and deserve special treatment because of the hard work they've put into trading online.
Granted that if someone with zero references comes to me and says, "I'll trade you x if you send first," I'm probably going to decline the trade, but I'm not going to say that "god rules" apply. When dealing with fellow traders, again, treat them as you'd like to be treated. I've had some wonderful trade deals with people from all over the world and none of us had to be snotty about who we were and demand that we receive special treatment. The unwritten rule is: If you have more references than me, then I will send first, unless you agree to simulsend. It's as simple as that.
Jack Be a Ripper Tonight
For every good trader out there on the Internet, there are also more than a handful of rippers. This is the scary aspect about trading online. When you trade in person, you can keep an eye on your binder, show your cards to someone, and then get them back. If you're just starting out with online trading, you'll most likely will need to send first. No one is going to trust you with zero references. Basically, you have no good name in trading circles. You need to build people's trust and the only way to do that is to participate in trades and have the trader send you in a good reference. Some people are out there to scam you. They might say they'll send first and don't, or, more insidiously, they might say they'll simulsend, but don't, and claim that they did. Essentially, it'll come down to a stalemate. There's no way to tell if someone is telling the truth or lying. What do I suggest? Check out a person's references. Look at their list and if you feel unsure, send an e-mail to someone on the reference list and find out if the trader is good. Ask the following:
If you're ever in doubt about a trade, then don't go through with the trade. And when you send out your cards, ask yourself: "If I were to lose these cards and get ripped, can I live with that?" The value of your cards are dear to you and you should only trade if you feel comfortable with a deal. Sending out an out of print (OOP) card, could be cause for concern. Make sure you do your homework on the trader.
As for rippers, well, the world would be a better place if this could be stopped, but there's always that jacka$$ who wants to steal. If you are ripped, you can try to file mail fraud and then list a ripper on the bad traders list on the online trading Website. Thankfully, in the years that I've been trading, I've only be ripped twice (and once I got my cards back). I wish I could write something to help calm the fears of a new trader, but there aren't any assurances I can give. When trading online, be cautious and watch out for your stuff.
On the positive side, be sure that you give people the benefit of time. Sometimes it does take a long time for the mail to be delivered. Don't go accusing someone of being a ripper until the appropriate amount of time. A letter from the West Coast to the East Coast in the USA could take 5-7 days while a letter to Europe could take about 7-9 days (remember that Sundays don't count).
For those people who still want to rip you off, there's nothing to be done about it except report them, try to file mail fraud, and learn the ropes so that your innocence in trading isn't used against you. The general rule of thumb in online trading is: "If a deal is too good to be true, then it is." Think about that for a moment. If someone is willing to send first and trade a boatload of stuff to you, because he needs your one card to finish his deck, then I'd be highly suspicious. Online trading isn't simply about trading cards, it also teaches you trust, friendship, and life skills. Don't be a chump and go for a deal that's obviously meant to rip you off. At the same time, don't be so paranoid that people think you're Tweak from South Park.
Where to Trade Online?
Well, I'm going to send you to the best. The place where all serious traders go. Hopefully, this site will be around for a long time. Visit the Magic Online Traders League(MOTL) and you'll be in for a treat. Many of you reading this article have probably used this site before, but for you newbies out there, this is the place to go. Unfortunately, if you're new to online trading, you're going to have to start at the bottom of the barrel. With zero references, no one is going to be willing to trade with you unless you send first. This isn't a problem for many, it's just time consuming. I would suggest starting out with small trades that are close to home.
Here's a breakdown on what MOTL has to offer:
How do you get all this and how much does it cost? Well, visit MOTL and then click on the "Join the League" link underneath the Member Services section in the left navbar. Create a login, set your profile, and you're good to go. Let's break down a simple posting. All you need to do is to click on the Ultimate Bulletin Board link (under Trading Services) in the left-hand menu, then click on the Magic: TG Have/Want Lists. On this page, you'll see a ton of posts that other people have put up. At this point, you have several options. You can search for a card you're looking for by typing it in the search engine or you can scroll down, all the way to the bottom of the page, and click on the "Post New Topic" link. From here you'll then need to log into the system, fill in your have and want lists (use that MS Word file you created to copy and paste your lists), and then click the "Submit New Topic" button at the bottom of the page. Before you submit, be sure you check the "Email Notification" button in the options section. By choosing this option, you'll be e-mailed everytime someone posts to your topic. That way you'll know when someone has offered you a deal.
The coolest thing about MOTL is that once you have a list posted you can log into the system and then see what trade matches are out there. The database automatically searches to see how many people have cards you want and how many cards you have. It'll save you a lot of time.
MOTL will take a little bit of time getting to know, but once you start using it, you will have joined the larger Magic community. Just remember that MOTL isn't just for trading. I've found it an amazing site for obtaining help on deck construction. Many users post deck lists and then fellow Magic Players critique the decks. It's a great way to learn how to build a better deck.
Although I only mention MOTL in this article, there are many other smaller online trading sites out there. But if you're a beginner, I'd suggest to start with MOTL since it's such a good system. Remember to have fun when you trade, be patient, and keep your eyes open for those who want to rip you off. Once you complete a few deals, you'll get the hang of it, and will be well on your way to getting the cards you need!
What's the moral here? No matter if you trade with someone in the USA or in another country, people will still try to rip you off. Just don't be prejudiced and refuse to trade with someone outside the USA because of this. Thoroughly checking someone's references and being patient (remember it takes longer to get cards from Asia than it does from someone two states away!), is the key to success. Here's a rule of thumb: Treat others as you wish to be treated. It's the old Golden Rule that many of us were taught in growing up. Most often, if you are fair in a trade with someone outside the USA, that person will be fair back. It might take a while longer to get the cards, but you might also find an e-mail pen pal or someone to play Magic with online. At the least, trading around the world allows you to see all the cool stamps from different countries. Be open-minded and fair.
I typically use:
- Person with the lowest refs sends first.
- No rippers!
- Make me an offer. Don't ask me to look at your list.
- Have fun!
- Refs: The official number of people you have traded Magic cards with. If you're using the Magic Online Taders League (MOTL), then there's an official place to put this information. The person you've traded with will need to complete a Web form and rate his trading experience with you. Many people will not take your Ebay rating as being a Magic trading reference list. Nor will people take references you have from another system. Most of the time, whatever online system you're using for trading counts for that system only. Though, in my opinion, references from MOTL are the best. Many, Magic Players use the MOTL system.
- Simulsend: Both you and the trader agree to send the cards at the same time. Let me say that again: You both send at the same time. Not: "Oh, I'll say I'll send at the same time but wait until I receive his cards." That's not how it works. If you agree to do this, then you have to trust the person you're trading with. If you get burned, well, heck, it happens. I find that single card trades that are under $20 work best as simulsends.
Here's some good etiquette in following through with a trade. If you post out your haves and wants, review the offers given to you. Once you select a trade you like (remember, you can decline them all if you want, just send each user an e-mail to let them know that you're not accepting their offer), contact the individual, and work out the following:
- What are the condition of your and the trader's cards. Are they in mint, near mint (NM), or excellent (EX) shape? Make certain that you and the trader are on the same page in regard to what each category is. For large, expensive trades of out of print cards (OOP), ask for a scan of the card.
- Exchange mailing addresses. Even if you're not sending first, get the trader's address so you can log this away with the cards. It'll help you track your trades.
-
Be sure that you relist the entire trade. This will enable you to avoid any confusion. List them out as:
- You: Undermine
- Me: Upheaval
- Make sure that you agree on how to ship the cards. If someone is overseas and sends it by boat, the cards will take weeks for you to get them. For larger trades, ask about both of you getting insurance on the cards. Better to pay a buck toward insurance, than to lose a Black Lotus in the mail.
- Packing. This is the key to a successful trade. I've traded with people who have simply taken a card, put it in a business envelope, and then mailed it to me. This is not the way to ship a card. Again, if you want to do it right, spend a few bucks and buy some padded computer disk mailers (type in "disk mailers" on the OfficeMax Website search tool). These work great for small trades. In regard to the cards, do not send out a card unless it's in a hard protective card sleeve called an Ultra Pro Toploader. Most people I've traded with put the card in a normal card sleeve and then put the card in a toploader. This will ensure maximum protection for your card. Yes, it might cost extra to do this, but remember that you're trying to build relationships with your traders. You need for them to give you a glowing reference and want to be able to trade with them again.
When you first go online and start to trade, you'll quickly become aware of many gods on the trading forums. You'll notice posts that say "god rules apply" or, even more subtle (sarcasm intended), phrases such as "I am god." What does this all mean? I'll break it down into simplistic, psychological terms. The trader who says "I am god" has an inferiority complex and mistakenly believes that he (I've never seen a woman do this) has the right to dictate all the conditions of the trade. Simply because they have a huge number of references, they believe that they can command the entire nature of the trade. Want some words of advice? Don't trade with them. You'll be happier in the long run. Anyone who needs to be so caustic over pieces of cardboard, needs to get a grip. There are two major types of traders: The ones who believe they own everything and can boss people around and those who want to make a trade fairly. The "gods" believe that they are special and deserve special treatment because of the hard work they've put into trading online.
Granted that if someone with zero references comes to me and says, "I'll trade you x if you send first," I'm probably going to decline the trade, but I'm not going to say that "god rules" apply. When dealing with fellow traders, again, treat them as you'd like to be treated. I've had some wonderful trade deals with people from all over the world and none of us had to be snotty about who we were and demand that we receive special treatment. The unwritten rule is: If you have more references than me, then I will send first, unless you agree to simulsend. It's as simple as that.
Jack Be a Ripper Tonight
For every good trader out there on the Internet, there are also more than a handful of rippers. This is the scary aspect about trading online. When you trade in person, you can keep an eye on your binder, show your cards to someone, and then get them back. If you're just starting out with online trading, you'll most likely will need to send first. No one is going to trust you with zero references. Basically, you have no good name in trading circles. You need to build people's trust and the only way to do that is to participate in trades and have the trader send you in a good reference. Some people are out there to scam you. They might say they'll send first and don't, or, more insidiously, they might say they'll simulsend, but don't, and claim that they did. Essentially, it'll come down to a stalemate. There's no way to tell if someone is telling the truth or lying. What do I suggest? Check out a person's references. Look at their list and if you feel unsure, send an e-mail to someone on the reference list and find out if the trader is good. Ask the following:
- Did you receive the cards you traded for in the promised condition?
- Did you receive the cards in a prompt manner?
- How much was the trade for?
- Overall, were you happy with the trade?
If you're ever in doubt about a trade, then don't go through with the trade. And when you send out your cards, ask yourself: "If I were to lose these cards and get ripped, can I live with that?" The value of your cards are dear to you and you should only trade if you feel comfortable with a deal. Sending out an out of print (OOP) card, could be cause for concern. Make sure you do your homework on the trader.
As for rippers, well, the world would be a better place if this could be stopped, but there's always that jacka$$ who wants to steal. If you are ripped, you can try to file mail fraud and then list a ripper on the bad traders list on the online trading Website. Thankfully, in the years that I've been trading, I've only be ripped twice (and once I got my cards back). I wish I could write something to help calm the fears of a new trader, but there aren't any assurances I can give. When trading online, be cautious and watch out for your stuff.
On the positive side, be sure that you give people the benefit of time. Sometimes it does take a long time for the mail to be delivered. Don't go accusing someone of being a ripper until the appropriate amount of time. A letter from the West Coast to the East Coast in the USA could take 5-7 days while a letter to Europe could take about 7-9 days (remember that Sundays don't count).
For those people who still want to rip you off, there's nothing to be done about it except report them, try to file mail fraud, and learn the ropes so that your innocence in trading isn't used against you. The general rule of thumb in online trading is: "If a deal is too good to be true, then it is." Think about that for a moment. If someone is willing to send first and trade a boatload of stuff to you, because he needs your one card to finish his deck, then I'd be highly suspicious. Online trading isn't simply about trading cards, it also teaches you trust, friendship, and life skills. Don't be a chump and go for a deal that's obviously meant to rip you off. At the same time, don't be so paranoid that people think you're Tweak from South Park.
Where to Trade Online?
Well, I'm going to send you to the best. The place where all serious traders go. Hopefully, this site will be around for a long time. Visit the Magic Online Traders League(MOTL) and you'll be in for a treat. Many of you reading this article have probably used this site before, but for you newbies out there, this is the place to go. Unfortunately, if you're new to online trading, you're going to have to start at the bottom of the barrel. With zero references, no one is going to be willing to trade with you unless you send first. This isn't a problem for many, it's just time consuming. I would suggest starting out with small trades that are close to home.
Here's a breakdown on what MOTL has to offer:
- Articles on latest Magic news
- Price guides for foil and non-foil cards
- Tournament Options
- Member Services (reference checker, Membership profiles)
- Ultimate Bulletin Board (Auctions board, chat room, confirmed bad trader list)
How do you get all this and how much does it cost? Well, visit MOTL and then click on the "Join the League" link underneath the Member Services section in the left navbar. Create a login, set your profile, and you're good to go. Let's break down a simple posting. All you need to do is to click on the Ultimate Bulletin Board link (under Trading Services) in the left-hand menu, then click on the Magic: TG Have/Want Lists. On this page, you'll see a ton of posts that other people have put up. At this point, you have several options. You can search for a card you're looking for by typing it in the search engine or you can scroll down, all the way to the bottom of the page, and click on the "Post New Topic" link. From here you'll then need to log into the system, fill in your have and want lists (use that MS Word file you created to copy and paste your lists), and then click the "Submit New Topic" button at the bottom of the page. Before you submit, be sure you check the "Email Notification" button in the options section. By choosing this option, you'll be e-mailed everytime someone posts to your topic. That way you'll know when someone has offered you a deal.
The coolest thing about MOTL is that once you have a list posted you can log into the system and then see what trade matches are out there. The database automatically searches to see how many people have cards you want and how many cards you have. It'll save you a lot of time.
MOTL will take a little bit of time getting to know, but once you start using it, you will have joined the larger Magic community. Just remember that MOTL isn't just for trading. I've found it an amazing site for obtaining help on deck construction. Many users post deck lists and then fellow Magic Players critique the decks. It's a great way to learn how to build a better deck.
Although I only mention MOTL in this article, there are many other smaller online trading sites out there. But if you're a beginner, I'd suggest to start with MOTL since it's such a good system. Remember to have fun when you trade, be patient, and keep your eyes open for those who want to rip you off. Once you complete a few deals, you'll get the hang of it, and will be well on your way to getting the cards you need!
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